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Azazel

Kage/Clan Leadership Holding

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Co-leaders being no longer optional ties in well with the suggestion for leaders to be active - so the chance of players not being accepted simply because leaders are AWOL, even if so many are needed, is dealt with. And this:
 

 

 


As far as applications go, (Co)-leaders should get something more visible when there are any, reducing the chance of them hanging around for god knows how long.

 

is good because many times there have been apologies for simply not seeing an application as there wasn't really any visible notification of it.

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  • Ced raised a valid concern on the Timers, how do you plan on stopping people from spamming it till the quota is linked? 5 is nothing if you have a few friends and want to take over a clan.

 

As far as spamming the the challenge goes, we can make it so that there can be only one active challenge for the village/clan leadership. Nuktuk already mentioned that we can provide a 24 hr window within which the current leader has to respond. So the leader will have almost 144 hrs (if he doesn't respond to any of the challenges) to come to a decision before the system decides for him.

 

  • Why not simply link it to Activity points like Kage is linked to PVP? IE: Co-leaders would have to get X% of the total Activity Points of their clan. This in turn would provide multiple moments where one of them would have to wake up and allow for a challenge. Add in the factor that in order to stay competitive they need to do Missions, Train and hence wake up and run around.

 

Yeah. This could be a possible criteria for claiming co-leadership and challenging for the leadership. But do activity points decay like PvP? Just asking 'cause I'm not really sure. And individual user activity only seems accumulate. So that would mean that once you've amassed a certain amount of individual activity over a period of time, you'd be able to claim co-leadership without doing much at all.

 

 

I am unsure of the value of these types of challenges. Kage's need to train, do missions, raid. All things that require waking up. Add to that the fact they need to keep the clans happy or get booted, I don't think it's a good idea to force a person to accept challenges.

 

Being a Kage is a lot of responsibility. When a player chooses to take the village leadership, he/she chooses these additional responsibilities not out of necessity, but out of their own choice. Fending off potential challenges also fall under these responsibilities. That is no excuse for skiving off challenges. As far as catching them awake goes, what's the point of challenging if the current kage can keep on declining it? If a player wants to remain Kage, they should also be strong enough to protect their position.

 

But maybe, as a way to buffer the kage responsibilities, we can increase the number of rejections allowed to, say, 12 for a period of 15 days, after which time, the rejection counter resets. We can also up the penalties in case the challenger loses, to discourage people from spamming challenges.

Edited by Albafica

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I kind of agree with Pana in that Kage is not really a problem...individual Kages were meant to last months in the position. And the timing problem still doesn't go away (Challenger challenges Kage, logs off for 24 hours and Kage is forcibly booted, or Kage and Challenger are never on at the same time and Kage is booted, there's just too many uncontrolled variables imo.)

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Fairly easy to challenge a Kage with the current system due to how active they need to be, as several people have said. It does require a little bit more effort than pressing a button, but that comes with the territory.

 

Clan Leadership spots are an issue though. Once an inactive player gets a hold of one of these positions it's nearly impossible to challenge for it. With inactive clan leaders, one of the checks on the Kage is also lost (the ability to boot a kage if popular opinion is against them, etc)

 

If there was a way to require activity, that would in turn make it possible for challenges to occur.

 

In my experience, when a clan leader leaves the position it is vacant and available for anyone to take it as it works with the Kage position. All the system requires is a way for clan leaders to be booted for inactivity.

 

The issue then is co-leader spots being filled by active players... Quite frankly some villages just dont have the playerbase to fill 18 clan positions with active players... Maybe it would be a good idea to trim co-leaders down to 2 max and base the majority vote on that instead. (2 for and 1 against, player is accepted.)

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Clan Leadership spots are an issue though. Once an inactive player gets a hold of one of these positions it's nearly impossible to challenge for it. With inactive clan leaders, one of the checks on the Kage is also lost (the ability to boot a kage if popular opinion is against them, etc)

 

If there was a way to require activity, that would in turn make it possible for challenges to occur.

 

In my experience, when a clan leader leaves the position it is vacant and available for anyone to take it as it works with the Kage position. All the system requires is a way for clan leaders to be booted for inactivity.

 

Both clan leaders and co-leaders can be kicked by the system for an extended period of inactivity, say 3 days. But this would only work if the (co)leaders are completely inactive. Supposing they are semi-active, say they log-in for a little time once a day or once in 2 days, we would need a better measure of the player's activity, like the minimum PvP or the activity point system that Pana suggested.

 

 

The issue then is co-leader spots being filled by active players... Quite frankly some villages just dont have the playerbase to fill 18 clan positions with active players... Maybe it would be a good idea to trim co-leaders down to 2 max and base the majority vote on that instead. (2 for and 1 against, player is accepted.)

 

This could very well be an issue. Not have the player base necessary to hold the 25 clan positions (5 leaders and 20 co-leaders). So how about we extend co-leadership to Chuunin? That could bring in more activity.

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Both clan leaders and co-leaders can be kicked by the system for an extended period of inactivity, say 3 days. But this would only work if the (co)leaders are completely inactive. Supposing they are semi-active, say they log-in for a little time once a day or once in 2 days, we would need a better measure of the player's activity, like the minimum PvP or the activity point system that Pana suggested.

I think that booting for inactivity should only apply to clan leaders. Reason being, they can appoint (and fire, I think?) co-leaders. As a result, so long as the leader is active it should ensure that the co-leaders are active as well.

 

Although there is still the potential for problems in that situation as well. If the clan leader is inept at managing the clan, doesn't want to boot a friend, etc.

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I kind of agree with Pana in that Kage is not really a problem...individual Kages were meant to last months in the position. And the timing problem still doesn't go away (Challenger challenges Kage, logs off for 24 hours and Kage is forcibly booted, or Kage and Challenger are never on at the same time and Kage is booted, there's just too many uncontrolled variables imo.)

 

I agree with you here. This part needs some elaboration. So here's a rough layout of a possible system for this:

 

1. The challenger issues the challenge

2. Leader gets the notification. he can either accept/reject/ignore the notification. If he ignores it, the timer will run down from 24 hrs to 0 and then counted as a rejection.

3. Supposing the leader accepts, the system will ask for a suitable time.

4. The leader keys in a time (only game time).

 

5. Once the leader pick a suitable game time, a notification will be sent to the challenger by the system

 

6. The challenge link will be open for 20 mins from the time the leader chose

7. Let's just say the leader picked 11 am game time. The challenge link will be available from 11 - 11:20 am during which time both the challenger and the leader cannot sleep within the village. An error message will be shown if they try to do so.

8. The battle will be automatically started by the system as soon as both the players are on the village tile during the time limit. Similar to mission AI battles.

 

 

If the challenger is a no show, it'll be considered as his loss in the challenge.

And if the leader doesn't show, the challenge becomes invalid and it'll be counted as a rejection from the leader by the system.

 

 

 

I think that booting for inactivity should only apply to clan leaders. Reason being, they can appoint (and fire, I think?) co-leaders. As a result, so long as the leader is active it should ensure that the co-leaders are active as well.

 

Although there is still the potential for problems in that situation as well. If the clan leader is inept at managing the clan, doesn't want to boot a friend, etc.

 

Don't base this on the current system. I suggested a change in a earlier post. The position of clan leader cannot be claimed directly. It's the co-leaders that choose the leader. So apart from the challenge, if a new player wants to claim and hold on to clan leadership, he would need the support of the co-leaders. So it'll be necessary that a clan has 4 active co-leaders.

Edited by Albafica

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That seems like a lot of arm-twisting for a position that isn't supposed to be the province of every other ninja anyway. It takes 7 days just to get the hat and the position is supposed to be somewhat political anyway. I get the feeling that we're making a mountain out of a molehill here, but that's just me.

 

Also it seems like there's a lot of holes in that sequence of events, I doubt you can get something iron-clad to enforce cooperation.

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5. Once the leader pick a suitable game time, a notification will be sent to the challenger by the system

 

 

I feel that the challenge system is too complicated to be practical, especially since the player base is stretched across so many time zones.

​If someone challenging me is from somewhere like Australia, I could easily keep setting a time when I know they are asleep. If they set the time, same problem.

I think that creating more times where the clan leader is awake so they can be challenged or the activity point system that can fire the clan leader for not being active would work better.

​

I also agree that 4 co-leaders may be a bit much in smaller villages, especially if it's just jounin and EJ who can hold that position.

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I feel that the challenge system is too complicated to be practical, especially since the player base is stretched across so many time zones.

​If someone challenging me is from somewhere like Australia, I could easily keep setting a time when I know they are asleep. If they set the time, same problem.

I think that creating more times where the clan leader is awake so they can be challenged or the activity point system that can fire the clan leader for not being active would work better.

 

That layout I suggested is complicated. I doubt any layout that need active participation from two different parties could be simplistic, especially with so many different variables involved.. But that was just a crude idea, that lists some the things that will be required to make this work. So any sort of an improved suggestion for this part is very much welcome.

 

 

I also agree that 4 co-leaders may be a bit much in smaller villages, especially if it's just jounin and EJ who can hold that position.

 

This is the reason I suggested that we could extend the minimum rank requirement for co-leadership to chuunin.

Edited by Azazel

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Guest Faithy

I agree that chuunin should be allowed to be clan and village leader... 

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I agree that chuunin should be allowed to be clan and village leader... 

 

I suggested opening only co-leadership to chuunin. You'll still need to be Jounin+ for claiming Kage/clan leader.

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