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Town Hall: Sensei and Students

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So, another Town Hall for another underdeveloped feature.

 

Sensei. What should it do? There has been a lot of talk about it lately so lets see what people want on it.

 

A few things to keep in consideration.

  • Ryo refund of jutsu trained by your students!
    How about no? If anything it's way easier to reduce costs of the jutsu. Which don't really cost much to start with. Useless and won't be considered.
  • Quests for Student/Sensei!
    Interesting, but same problem as I listed with the ANBU before, AI are to limited for this to work. Not happening because of this. If/when AI interface improves it can be considered.
  • Stat boost for students!
    Already on the list. Though if you think you have a good way to make this work, feel free to add it.
  • This is not a high-priority topic. However we do want to do something with it.
  • Stay on topic!
  • Stay polite!

Well. I think that's about it~ Go for it.

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TO CLARIFY: In case it was not clear, I am not saying that the sensei would get a boost from doing the quests, only the students will receive the boost. 

 

 

The only thing I can really think of that would matter for this is the stat boost. What else would people need the sensei for besides better training? In regards to the sensei/student quest, I think it would be a nice touch if the quest were not necessarily a co-op quest where student and sensei have to work together, but rather student and sensei complete quests individually. 

  • Student completes his quest, now the Sensei's quest is available to complete. and once both quest are completed, the student gets a regen/stat boost. 
  • You can give some base for the stat boost, say 5% regen increase. and then after every quest add a point to the boost, i'm assuming it's regen boost?
    • Of course, make a limit on how high the boost can be maybe 15% since genin regen is low anyways, won't be too much to be considered OP compared to chuunin's.
  • Since they'll be quest instead of pvp fights, make it structured as a streak system, and if they complete the quest 10 days in a row, or something of that sort, they get a 5% boost added. This way, the boost students get from sensei's also includes how much effort they put in. Changing up the quest everyday too would also allow for newer players to travel the map and get used to moving around and figuring where things are on the map.
    • This might raise the concern of people staying Genin so they don't get attacked but considering the features that are gained when ranking up, along with the better regen and higher caps, I dont think people would stay genin for too long, but having a sensei with these stat boosts would definitely help speed up the process of newer players getting the hang of things and catching up in terms of stats in order to be decent enough to fight other players once they rank to chuunin. 
Edited by Nuktuk

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increased gains from errands.

Reduce mission timers from 30 minutes to 15

grant an extra D mission per day

Item shop price reduction

 

If possible, allow the genin to spectate their sensei's battle and/or spar. as to give them an interactive look at how to PvP.

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A training boost depending on the Sensei specializaton.

 

ex; my sensei have Taijutsus specialization , when i train i get 2% more Tai offense/defense . If i train 10 times , i would gain 1.2 , and not 1.0  .

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Guest Faithy

Sensei should be able to view their student's stats. (just like a core2 marriage) 

 

But student cannot see sensei stats.

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To be honest i think the Sensei system is fine the way it is, i don't think its needs a stat-boosting element to justify its existence. It serves the function of allowing players to teach and mentor newcomers fairly well , during my time as a jounin ive seen about 13 students graduate while under my care, and i have offered help and advice to all of them- most of the time i offer the same courtesy to any new players i happen along.

By adding an arbitrary stat-boosting system to senseis it would create an unnecessary sense of urgency, and demand for senseis regardless of who they are since stats and ryo would be seen as more of an incentive than any amount of advice, defeating the entire purpose of having a dedicated mentoring system in the first place.

I know most people are going to cry out for stat boosts and all kinds of dramatic changes like reduced mission timers, ryo gains, additional benefits Etc etc, but that will just serve to keep players genin longer, and devalue the benefits of ranking to chuunin. If stat gains are going to be implemented i'm fine with them so long as they're balanced and small- maybe something less tailored towards stat progression, and more tailored towards convenience like increasing the rate at which students pools cap.

Increasing Ryo amounts is a big no-no IMO, and i say that as someone who has plenty to gain by it since my alt is a perma-genin- in a way it would add another viable alternative than syndicate alts, i rarely have 1M across both my accounts relying on the errand gains from genin...Still i feel like choosing to keep your alt genin to scout should pose significant loss of potential funds for balance.

Honestly, sensei should have more cosmetic features added to it if anything, like a chat for students current and past, and something AKIN to the Kage's Orders to post information, incentives, contests Etc for students, the ability to veiw stats to make sure they arent doing anything silly like dual offense, would also be nice to have a way to track your lineage of students- see who ranked up, who's still active, and some stats on them like Kills, pvp, ETC-  the sensei system should be more about player interaction than stat games, and encourage meaningful and long lasting ties between the players- this would also help incentive people to stay, as realistically most players stay on TNR for the social aspect, not game mechanics, and anything to further deepen player connections and interaction, is a god-send.

One last thing, none of the C2 sensei training bullshit, anything that's implemented should be across the board for everyone who is a current sensei and will be a future sensei without pool investment.

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A sensei/student board, where students that are looking for senseis can be shown there, and senseis that are accepting students also.

Edited by Lucy
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Sensei training gain boosts from Core 2 make a return, it was helpful to newer players back then.

 

Though I would also say that being able to see the stats of your student would be a nice feature as well.

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Aprhee +1.

Lucy  +1.

 

Don't overcomplicate things for new players. But sensei seing students stats is nice idea

Edited by 1337_Yondaime

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To be honest i think the Sensei system is fine the way it is, i don't think its needs a stat-boosting element to justify its existence. It serves the function of allowing players to teach and mentor newcomers fairly well , during my time as a jounin ive seen about 13 students graduate while under my care, and i have offered help and advice to all of them- most of the time i offer the same courtesy to any new players i happen along.

 

You can (and should) help and teach new comers regardless if they are your student or not. I've helped multiple people understand game mechanics, but don't really care for the Sensei system itself because it serves zero purpose aside from a Role-Playing aspect. Senseis aren't even a "mentoring" position as it is right now. It's more or less for aesthetics.

 

There should be an incentive for this feature, otherwise remove it entirely. In regards to "holding" Genin rank, I genuinely don't see an issue with it. Every player should have the ability to play how they see fit. If they want to be Genin for a longer time, the exchange is that they don't engage in PvP for that time, have reduced regen, do not have access to professions, and all around don't have the same game experience as Chuunin. Complaining that there will be too many Genin rank-holders is like complaining that there are too many gnats - it's harmless in every way besides Genin being able to use the Scout Area function. Something which should be removed. Scout Area itself should be moved to a Chuunin+ feature on the simple fact that Genin can't be attacked, but they can give locations of players on a tile (if from another village or not in your village's territory) or of everyone in a territory. Knowing who is on a tile/about to be on a tile should be liable to being attacked.

 

Sensei's should give increased stat gains - actually, everything that Azrael said makes sense. Increased gains to ryo, stats, and decreased mission timers. Genin should be an experience that players enjoy, and it should be accompanied by the Sensei function. Another chat for all previous students might be interesting. But it will more than likely end up being another useless chat like ANBU, Clan, and Marriage chats. I still would like to see a Sensei and Student PvE mission akin to what happened in Naruto all the time. I feel it would better immerse players into the world of TNR. Honestly, I would just like more missions with better rewards. These missions could even generate VF or Diplomacy or pretty much anything. Just something more to do so players can enjoy the mechanic instead of it being a dead, useless feature.

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I tend to agree that sensei should be left alone mostly.

 

I like Nuktuks idea of a mission activated by the student and finished by the sensei. It could be a daily thing to keep new players logging on.

 

If there were baseline benefits that didn't increase over time I think that would be a better model, otherwise prepare to pay $20 to have a sensei with max stat boosts hahaha

Edited by Link

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Ability for sensei give daily orders to his students.

e.g. train ninjutsu defence to X to gain reward of 1 d-rank mission.

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A sensei/student board, where students that are looking for senseis can be shown there, and senseis that are accepting students also.

 

 

 

By adding an arbitrary stat-boosting system to senseis it would create an unnecessary sense of urgency, and demand for senseis regardless of who they are since stats and ryo would be seen as more of an incentive than any amount of advice, defeating the entire purpose of having a dedicated mentoring system in the first place.

 

 

Sensei should be able to view their student's stats. (just like a core2 marriage) 

 

But student cannot see sensei stats.

 

 

A training boost depending on the Sensei specializaton.

 

ex; my sensei have Taijutsus specialization , when i train i get 2% more Tai offense/defense . If i train 10 times , i would gain 1.2 , and not 1.0  .

 

 

 

If possible, allow the genin to spectate their sensei's battle and/or spar. as to give them an interactive look at how to PvP.

100%  agree with all these points, not too many stat benefits to remove incentive of Genin holding but the boost in a sensei's specialisation is particularly genius. 

Being able to view sensei's battles (past and present) is also a great idea for PvP experience, though the student shouldn't be able to see the in-battle menu's. 

Edited by Manuster

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Another thought, though unlikely as it gives chuunin content which TNR hates xD:

 

Make Chuunin have Sensei ability as well then make the student slots go as follows:

 

Chuunin- 1 student slot (think Iruka Sensei to Naruto relationship)

 

Jounin- 3 student slots

 

EJ- 5 student slots

 

 

Also (since Im not Jounin I don't know if this is still a thing, if it is ignore it) bring back positive respect points for the sensei for each student that graduates

Edited by AzraelsGrace
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1. Senseis aren't even a "mentoring" position as it is right now. It's more or less for aesthetics.

2. If they want to be Genin for a longer time, the exchange is that they don't engage in PvP for that time, have reduced regen, do not have access to professions, and all around don't have the same game experience as Chuunin.

3. it's harmless in every way besides Genin being able to use the Scout Area function.

4. Something which should be removed. Scout Area itself should be moved to a Chuunin+ feature on the simple fact that Genin can't be attacked, but they can give locations of players on a tile (if from another village or not in your village's territory) or of everyone in a territory. Knowing who is on a tile/about to be on a tile should be liable to being attacked.

5. Increased gains to ryo, stats, and decreased mission timers.

6. Genin should be an experience that players enjoy, and it should be accompanied by the Sensei function.

7. I still would like to see a Sensei and Student PvE mission akin to what happened in Naruto all the time. I feel it would better immerse players into the world of TNR. Honestly, I would just like more missions with better rewards. These missions could even generate VF or Diplomacy or pretty much anything. Just something more to do so players can enjoy the mechanic instead of it being a dead, useless feature.

1. That all depends on the person who's a sensei, some people don't do anything, others legitimately help out, some people actively seek new players to help teach them the game, others flat out dont take students, you give a man a forge coal and iron and he can make steel with it, if he chooses not to, the fault is with the man, not the provider of said materials

2 & 6. This is a PVP game, always has and always will be, Genin's place are scouting, socializing, running errands ETC, TNR is what it is, you seem to have this notion that Starcraft can also be The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Megaman 8 all at once, TNR is a stat-oriented text based PVP game, not WoW, Guildwars 2, or Fallout, if a dog is a dog, dont try to make it into a cat.

3. No, its much more harmful than that, Genin is the choice of absolute safety both of monetary gains and K/D count as well as being able to enter entering PVP with higher base stats to be more competitive in PVP in exchange for slower stat progression. and longer entry time into PVP combat the focus of the game.

4. I completely disagree with this, Genin can, and SHOULD be able to scout for purposes of peoples mains AND alts, scouting serves a legitimate function and gives genin a purpose outside of PVP keeping their village safe, or, co-coordinating with ANBU or other players to have better organized raids- as the genin rank is supposed to represent children, and they cannot attack people, they shouldnt be veiwed as a threat or targeted, and considering you stated lore reasoning and immersion, i would like to point out that Genin scouts are and were a thing in the franchise as well and makes the most sense as murdering children is akin to a warcrime.

5. FINALLY the MEAT AND POTATOES this is going to be a duzie

Ryo Increase- Serves no function, Genin houses, items, and hospital bills are more than low enough as is, there is no legitimate reason to increase the ryo gains, not any reason WHY having a sensei would increase ryo gains from a logical point of veiw, your just giving extra ryo to people who have scouting alts.

Mission Timer Reduction

PRE System revamp[- A disaserusly unfair advantage making chuunin rank absolutely useless before capping genin, MISSIONS are worth more than pools will ever be- one mission a day is better than GR for a week, and your doubling their missions per day- 16 D ranks VS 8 C ranks? The 16 D wins by a MASSIVE margin.

POST System revamp- effectively reduce the effort and input of 5 hours of play IF you do all 10 supposed missions under the new framework to 2.5 hours, this isnt as massively unbalanced as if it were implemented with the current system but still unfair and DECREASES user activity as people who are impatient will only be encouraged to stick arouind half of the time before logging off since their missions are complete, it also wouldnt make sense to suddenly go chuunin and LOOSE that buff.

Extra D Mission - Again, No, missions are immeasurably valuable one additional mission per day would practically make MOOT the Regen increase chuunin provides, if people doubt me ill pull up the old thread that did all of the math on how valuable missions really are so people can see what im talking about.

7. This is the only suggestion of Az's that i wholeheartedly agree with, a daily quest AKIN to EM's for Genin, and potentially their Sensei though as pana has said many many times TNRS AI system is incredibly limited, but REALISTICALLY for Genin, that provides a couple of VF per day to help out their village would be a nice little addition- especially if TNR adjusts regen dynamically based on player population genin included like it used to- which i dont think it does.

Oh and the one she posted while i was typing this mess, about more student slots PER rank and allowing Chuunin to potentially have students. Edited by Arphee

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Sorry ced, though under the circumstances its kind of necessary to prevent mixing topics and adressing specific people and posts...that being said, SINCE YOU POSTED so that people will actually read what i wrote instead of glossing over it as a wall of text...
 

 



A training boost depending on the Sensei specializaton.

ex; my sensei have Taijutsus specialization , when i train i get 2% more Tai offense/defense . If i train 10 times , i would gain 1.2 , and not 1.0 .


Silence as an Example

Genin Regen = 106.93 right now
Chuunin Regen = 196.93 right now.

Pools per Day

Genin PPD: 154,080
Chuunin PPD: 283,680

Training Wep Offense

Current Genin: 3082 Weapon Offense 54% if Chuunin Gains
Suggested Genin: 3697 Weapon Offense 65% of Chuunin Gains
Chuunin: 5674 Weapon Offense 100% of Chuunin Gains

20% not 2%, but i assume that was a typo, but this seems acceptable to me so long as it doesn't effect Mission gains.

Edit: Added gain percentages, Skirted the rules

 

>_> Very funny.

Edited by Cedzen

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Ryo Increase- Serves no function, Genin houses, items, and hospital bills are more than low enough as is, there is no legitimate reason to increase the ryo gains.

 

 

Here is a legitimate reason. Chuunin jutsu cost money. in fact about 3-4 mil to cap each normal jutsu. Jounin jutsu are even more. Allowing genin extra errand gains allows them to have the funds to live the chuulife and onward. 

 

 

 

7. This is the only suggestion of Az's that i wholeheartedly agree with, a daily quest AKIN to EM's for Genin, and potentially their Sensei though as pana has said many many times TNRS AI system is incredibly limited, but REALISTICALLY for Genin, that provides a couple of VF per day to help out their village would be a nice little addition- especially if TNR adjusts regen dynamically based on player population genin included like it used to- which i dont think it does.

 

That was Doc not me xD

 

 

 

Oh and the one she posted while i was typing this mess, about more student slots PER rank and allowing Chuunin to potentially have students. 

This was me

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Here is a legitimate reason. Chuunin jutsu cost money. in fact about 3-4 mil to cap each normal jutsu. Jounin jutsu are even more. Allowing genin extra errand gains allows them to have the funds to live the chuulife and onward. 

 

 

That was Doc not me xD

 

 

;___; Sorry Az, may the night rock bless me with better attention span and perception, i have two windows open and keep trying to swat raiders while typing my walls of text, and it seems ive been failing at /both/ x.x

 

That being said, towards the Chuunin jutsu, GENIN should never be saving for  Jounin or EJ jutsu while genin unless their a scout alt, and first level of Chuunin jutsu are very cheap, its rare for Solomon to rank up and immediately softcap their jutsu unless they held for awhile since thats a lot of bank to be dropping, furthermore, softcapping chuunin jutsu is only useful if your perma chuunin.

 

i stand by my statement that the only people ryo gains really help are people with Genin alts, current genin ryo output is just fine at roughly 240K a day.

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20% not 2%, but i assume that was a typo, but this seems acceptable to me so long as it doesn't effect Mission gains.

 

no no , i meant 2% , so that it doesnt apple THAT much . 20% would be OP in my opinion , it would just make Genins to hold rank.....

 

Thanks Manuster ^^

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Since the whole group mission thing is apparently not possible, you could consider giving the sensei a boost from errands, while say genin get discounts at the hospital and ramen stands instead. (Kakashi buying all of Naruto's ramen.) Maybe even all the item shop stuff as well.
Obviously the biggest problem is people claiming students and not helping them, and claiming long-since-inactive students.
Maybe make a check-box for the genin so they can say if their sensei is helpful or not? (With tips and guidance in the wording, so they actually consider that.)
This would also help out with EJ complaining about having no one to kill, all those chuunin ryo alts would really want to rank up for more ryo. Yay!
 
As per stat gains, I think senseis giving less of a boost for offenses they're not specialized in compared to the rest of the stats is a great suggestion. 
I personally never chose a specialisation, since I've not been forced to do so.
 
As per diplomacy gain for graduated students, I really hope that in this core it would be based on the genin's stats. AKA a strong genin gives you the max amount, while a really weak genin ranking up with just the bare miminum, they can get none or lose respect. (That would only happen if stat boosts were implimented. As of now it's better to rank up right away still. Besides being murdered 20 times every 5 minutes with super tiny pools thing, that is. :D)

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This would also help out with EJ complaining about having no one to kill, all those chuunin ryo alts would really want to rank up for more ryo. Yay!

 

As per diplomacy gain for graduated students, I really hope that in this core it would be based on the genin's stats. AKA a strong genin gives you the max amount, while a really weak genin ranking up with just the bare miminum, they can get none or lose respect. (That would only happen if stat boosts were implimented. As of now it's better to rank up right away still. Besides being murdered 20 times every 5 minutes with super tiny pools thing, that is. :D)

 

I dont see how this would encourage people to rank up, increasing Ryo gains at genin just makes them a more viable alternative to the relative safety of a syndicate ryo alt...but again if they implement it i wont complain, i have the most to gain by genin getting ryo buffs lol.

 

Diplomacy gains can work, it allows people to get the rep necessary for kage ETC without having to spend pools on diplomacy or errands on their main, and doesn't imbalance the game in any way, stat based gains though seems like a silly idea to implement as ideally you'll want your students ranking to chuunin and progressing as quickly as possible (minimum stats for C rank)- or at least that's my teaching methodology, it varies from person to person.

 

 

no no , i meant 2% , so that it doesnt apple THAT much . 20% would be OP in my opinion , it would just make Genins to hold rank.....

 

Thanks Manuster ^^

 

2% Would be 

 

Genin PPD: 154,080

Chuunin PPD: 283,680

 

Training Wep Offense

 

0%     Genin: 3082 Weapon Offense 54% if Chuunin Gains

+2%   Genin:  3143 Weapon Offense 55% of Chuunin Gains

+5%   Genin: 3236 Weapon Offense  57% Of Chuunin Gains

+10% Genin: 3390 Weapon Offense 60% Of Chuunin Gains

+20% Genin: 3697 Weapon Offense 65% of Chuunin Gains

0%  Chuunin: 5674 Weapon Offense 100% of Chuunin Gains

 

2% is almost negligible and not worth implementing,  10% seems the most fair, plus  60% is a good round number.

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I actually meant the opposite, perhaps it wasn't clear, lol.
 
Genins can have the price of everything reduced, while the sensei or jounin/EJ get an increased payout from errands. (errands only, not small crimes. Or at least one would hope that a sensei wouldn't take a trio of children to rob a bank..) In the sense that they're all doing together, so more errands get done, and more money.
 
It would encourage all the people who are just chuunin ryo alts to at least reach jounin, hopefully?

Edited by AnotherNinja

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I actually meant the opposite, perhaps it wasn't clear, lol.

 

Genins can have the price of everything reduced, while the sensei or jounin/EJ get an increased payout from errands. (errands only, not small crimes. Or at least one would hope that a sensei wouldn't take a trio of children to rob a bank..) In the sense that they're all doing together, so more errands get done, and more money.

 

It would encourage all the people who are just chuunin ryo alts to at least reach jounin, hopefully?

 

That may encourage some people to rank their alts up, and since Syndicate cant have students it may encourage more people to have their higher ranked alts in villages, which would create more targets for syndicate to rob creating a positive feedback loop,

 

I guess it could work, though i don't see too many people wasting pools on their mains for added ryo, and people being students on an alt accountr i could see getting neglected quickly as the player logs in to run errands then logs off...

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