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Cedzen

Town Hall: War 2

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As I said, discussing EJ v. J is pointless in this thread - and pointless at all. I sent you a Skype message explaining the mechanic in better detail.

 

Onto the topic.

Delivery Missions

 

I like this idea! I was thinking of something similar for passive War missions. We could also include a scouting mission that has a timer for how long you need to stay in a certain territory or something.

 

Village Walls

 

This is also an interesting concept, but I honestly prefer the excitement of having to run out of my village to train. It's one of the few things that makes me feel there is an actual threat in the game.

 

Joining/Leaving Village

 

I personally like the idea of having to apply to villages - mostly because it allows players to act as an espionage character. But some villages would abuse this by only allowing top-end players into their village, making it harder to destroy them during war. I think there would need to be a better way of regulating inactive players as well - but if villages are keeping up on it, it should work. The only question is where all the new players would go when/if the villages are filled.

 

Ambush System

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It would kind of harm any low-level gatherers that cannot go into the Uncharted to gather.

 

Terrains

 

While this is a good idea, I personally would rather battles not be decided through chance. Fluctuation in damage is kind of bad enough.

 

AI Boss/Territory

 

The original intention of the AIs from the start was to incorporate low-end players into wars - an incredibly hard boss will not be much different for users than a user that has been around and actively training longer. If the territory system just has the ten top players in all ranks going and competing, that doesn't really change much in terms of war - you're still sending the top players out to do the best, and none of the newer players have a function in war other than not being killed again. However, in your system, I have no idea how to really balance it - nor do I have very many good ideas to incorporate new players. So long as there is at least one system (sitting and depleting SP,) they can still feel as though they impact the war. Just like I told many players in Shine while warring, you're responsible for your own deaths. This is a PvP game by nature and war is meant to be a PvP mechanic. Adding AI in my opinion, will not hurt that mechanic, so long as the rewards for killing players outweigh the rewards for destroying AI - but the option should still be there for players who want it.

 

Clans Inclusion to War

 

War points are a fabricated idea - but could replace Clan Points. The difference is that Clan Points can be earned going against other members of Clans, where War Points would be generated from War Missions and work done by clan members in wars. Clan System would most likely need to be revamped - I don't think Clans should have their own jutsu, and the switch from making the Clan jutsu into a mission to recover a scroll would be simple. Clans should essentially be war-based ANBUs with a larger amount of members. Maybe letting villages start with one Clan that no one is a part of, and then upgrades can happen over time. So long as there is a penalty for leaving a clan so not all clans generate War Points to keep villages with larger populations in check. (Large population meaning not all clans will have 10 active users, but instead maybe 2 active, 5 semi-active, 3 inactive - basically making it so ubers are split into five groups and clan mates can compete in a functional game mechanic.)

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Others.

  

 

I can’t argue how important health is to anything battle related… however I don’t think that HP should be increased dramatically to the point where it’d be like super easy like surgery. I like working for my HP and to have a higher HP than anyone else in my experience range and time spent on TNR makes me feel proud for the amount of no-life alarm-set work I have placed in. If it can be bought or increased in a rather cheap way, I’m personally quite against it.

 

As someone who frequently gets CFH’d, I have to admit that I don’t really think about CFHs unless I know certain particular people are online. Plus once you fight people after a certain amount of time, you learn if they are someone you can handle or if they are someone you can’t. I don’t think HP would help you all that much if your stats are crappy – believe me. Though, that is not saying you can’t bait yourself and stall time because of a tanky HP character.

 

 

Yes, yes, yes, and yes please!

War penalties I believe will be discussed in another Town Hall thread, though all the points you bring up are very true and should be, in most cases implemented.

 

Also please tell me how much text can be quoted...

"You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text"

...I had to so many comments and feedbacks that were semi-irrelevant -cries-

 

 

Definitely. HP should not be super easy to get or something you can get just by paying. I also agree that HP should not be gained at an increasingly fast pace. However as it stands right now the current system in place is way too slow. The only methods of HP gain are missions and EM quests.

 

 

 

I like to think that I'm doing my missions at an average pace. Not too much and not too little. I do 4 missions a day and my daily EM mission which is about 1940 HP a day as a Chunnin. At my current pace, Even if I follow my current pace diligently everyday, without taking a single break. I wouldn't even be 3/4 of capping my HP. And by then I would have probably capped my offenses and are already a good way through my defenses going around OHKO-ing people making the HP useless except if I'm going up against other ubers or somewhat strong Jounins.

 

This is just an example, say I currently have capped HP. About 250k in my main offense and about 100k defenses spread equally. I would still die in 4-5 hits by Jounins. There is no way I can win them or do enough damage to them unless I am capped or an uber. So to me either way I'm dead. But if I manage to survive and CFH successfully, at least there is a chance I get helped by somebody strong enough and give the attacker a fight. But either way I'm dead. But at least now the attacker will be more careful when attacking and it doesn't always simply become a one-side slaughter. Although you will most likely die if you go out solo to do missions or gather,etc since there won't be anybody to respond to the CFH which makes sense since you are out alone. Get 1 or 2 others to tag alone to gather/mine and it will be safer but that will only be possible if we have a large enough community so I'm just putting it out, just a little something to hope/dream about.

 

Maybe we could add in a Squad system where people can sorta "party" up with like 2 others which brings in a couple of benefits. Maybe something like extending the CFH range by 2 tiles and some minor boosts? Or maybe give members of your squad a notification when you are engaged in battle with the location. idk. This will also help make raiding with your ANBU squad more organized? I think. It also adds a little to the immersion as ninjas usually work in squads. It can also be used for asking for help from the village. Like if you got attacked near the village and you know you can't help your squad member, you could run to the village and ask for help in the tavern so they can respond to the CFH instead of you. 

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Village Walls

 

This is also an interesting concept, but I honestly prefer the excitement of having to run out of my village to train. It's one of the few things that makes me feel there is an actual threat in the game.

 

Ambush System

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It would kind of harm any low-level gatherers that cannot go into the Uncharted to gather.

 

 

 

 

 

Immersion-wise it doesn't quite make sense although I guess there should be some sort of "risk" to waking up? Some other way could be that you put the village on high alert when you kill somebody. Like maybe there will be a notice saying "____ was killed by ______" and the attacker will be moved a few tiles outside the village.

 

There could be a message after the battle like "You killed ____ mercilessly as they begged for their life. However the village has been notified or your killings and are on high alert. To avoid it you decided to hide outside the village and wait for things to die down" which adds to immersion and it kinda makes sense. So you get a 30 second time-out from entering the village. And maybe add some random factors to add risk to attacking within village walls such as encountering an AI guard if you killed an enemy ninja like what Mei has when you do small crimes within the city walls.

 

 

 

As for the ambush system what do you mean? Like people can scout them 2 tiles ahead? But if they do that they can't move for 30 secs because they are in "ambush" which prevents them from moving. So unless you know that there is somebody a few tiles ahead of you or if you know that they are coming your way, the ambush function is more of a bad thing than a good thing. Mmmm, if I was to give it a description I would think that scouting is more for active hunting/scouting while ambush is more for catching people unaware and requires prior knowledge to the enemy's location as if you use it carelessly you will be stuck for 30seconds. But if you use it properly for like say you encounter somebody caught in battle with an AI or mission objective you can ambush them.

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This might be long.

I will not be talking about any number and amount of Sp a feature should heal or destroy as it is job of balance team to find the right fit.

First thing we need is a Town Hall discussion about balancing the villages.

The biggest problem about war is that power and players are not distributed among all village equally or the disparity between strong village and weak village is too high and most of the problems related to war arises due to this(Except for bugs and all ).

Most of the suggestion in discussion are useless if the villages are not balanced .I will further elaborate this point in following examples.

 

1)Adding PvE to war.While i feel all the PvE elements of TnR are meh and i don't play Tnr for it's PvE aspects so adding any forms of PvE will not encourage me to participate more actively in war but that is just my thoughts.(Maybe someone or all of you would like to sit on square for 2 and half minute and/or go and kill same AI over and over again)

Adding a PVE element like fighting an AI and/or crafting /gathering/engineering might encourage more of weaker players to take part in war activity.But do not forget that non active users of stronger village will also be able to engage into these activities and the stronger village will likely have more population than weaker village and will also be able to make more usage of these activities as a result stronger village will only win war faster .

If a stronger village starts winning faster the members of the weaker village will automatically give up and then there will be no point of engaging in PvE element of war either for the members of the weaker village .

In short adding PvE element will accelerate the victory for stronger village.

 

2)It is a war not a Tournament .Fights are not suppose to be fair in war and so CFH should be an element that should take part in war .How much SP is destroyed by both the sides in a CFH battle can be easily deduced and a balanced number can be found out by balance team.

 

(Before someone uses the same argument for saying that ,"it is a war and weaker village can't expect a fair war against a stronger village".To them i would say that if a weaker village is allowed to CFH and the 2 village together are capable of taking down a stronger village then it is completely fine.Also stronger village should not be able to CFH in that case just like higher rank can't CFH on lower rank.)But clearly that is not the case.A stronger village might even 1v3 or 1v4 atm.

 

3)Leaving your village during war.

I have to say that allowing mod jump ability to all villagers was a bad idea in terms of balancing the game elements and now re enabling it ,even for short time ,is even worse.(I would expect more users crowding Glacier thereby throughing the entire village balancing act to oblivion.R.I.P Konoki alongside Shine).I doubt this feature will ever be seen on TNR again .Coming to people leaving village during war through ally killing .Most of the users have giving easy fix and solutions to these problems but again this is not a big problem which we are facing for war balancing.

 

4)Destroying village SP by sitting on village .This feature should be removed if wars are going to have timers.This was one of the feature which was introduced in order to help villagers close out wars so that opposing village just cannot stall it by just sleeping out war.If wars are going to have timer then end of the war is already fixed and thus village with better players should be winning the war not the one with more players.In a way this would diminish the effect village population has on war.The village who has more war activity (pvp wins,PvE elements like missions and occupations if added) will win the war not the village with more population.This would bring in strategies ,like sleeping while ubers are raiding, to more effect.

Problems :It will be more difficult  to close down wars and war time will solely be decided by time limits of war.

So i would suggest to leave it as it is.Users are still getting Sp destruction for just staying inside the village and at the end highest Sp destroying village is going to win.Increasing it's valur for any rank will only proliferate winning chances of village with larger population.

 

Coming to some of the elements that i would like to see implemented in current system but i doubt will ever happen.

Adding a council of village elders .

The council will comprise of 6 members.

1 chuunin ,1 jounin,1 EJ all of them selected by highest loyalty in village or highest diplomacy in village.(If two villagers have same loyalty then user with higher exp should be selected)

1 village champion that is Kage and head of the council and head of village selected the way it works now.

1 Clan representative selected from among the leaders of clan by the leaders of clan where no clan leader can vote for himself.(this could be done every month.)

1 ANBU representative selected from the leaders of ANBU through vote in same way as clan representative are selected.

Bear in mind no single person can hold more than one position.The first kage is selected after which top 3 loyal ninja are selected after which clan and ANBU representative are selected.If a certain clan or ANBU leader is already selected in above screening process then he or she is not eligible for voting in their respective selection.

 

Now what will council do?All the decision made by Kage should be made by council as whole.Each member will have 1 vote on all the decision and Kage will have 2 vote so that total of odd number of votes are casted and decision is made.

What will the vote on?A lot features could be added along with already existing decision made by kage Features that would benefit Clan ,ANBU,Villagers but since this is town hall for war discussion so i will keep their activity focus to war.

 

They will decide when and with whom to go on war.This should mean that going on a war is a majority deision and no single person is blame for it(Seeing how Konoki kage was flamed when shine allied with Samui and all hell broke loose).

They will decide all the structures to be developed and how is village funds spent and on what structures it is spent.

Additionally they could ask help from syndicate by bribing them with artifacts and/or village funds.I will explain the use of artifacts later. 

Basically all the things that kage does during a war is now done by a council.

Why have a council?

1) A village should not be govern by a single person.

2) A lot of users wants to hold the position of Kage and not all of them can achieve that goal .This way additional users can hold a significant hand in governing their village.

3)Will remove the blame game when a village does not fare well in a war.

4)it feels more like a village is being govern rather than a village is being ruled.

5)Added politics .

6)more village leader and villagers interaction .

 

Secondly coming to Syndicate and outlaws part in war.

Syndicate will also have a council which can be something like Akatsuki 

members are selected in a way such that 3 most loyal EJ,chuunin and jounin are selected instead of 1 and 1 syndicate head.

Total of 10 members.

Their role in war?

They also will have different role to play in other stuffs but i will keep discussion to war only

They except bribes in forms of VF and or artifacts from villages in order too help them in their endeavors of war. They can accept bribes from both the party of war and can help both faction where an outlaw is given an option to select the side they want to help.Outlaws are not family and they are certainly no allies in wild so an outlaw may be fighting other outlaw in 

a war of two villages.Now the artifacts which the syndicate accept from villages will be traded for war points.In additions to this each pvp battle that an outlaw fights in any village will add up to war points.Once said number of war points are reached like 10k(totally random number)they get option to trigger world ending events which are like wars between outlaws and village.

While syndicate is at war they would receive added benefits like 

1 increase the rob chance(attacked village are completely under mist during the time of war)

2 Increase regen while awake in enemy territory(the summoned beast would grant added regen to user inside the village territory of the summoned beast in war)

3 increase in chance of free heal through hospital (zetsu working in background to heal fallen syndicate members for free)

 

The event would last until one of the sides is defeated in the war.The war would work same as between two villages although syndicate cannot ally with other village but village can ally with other village during the course of event.

If syndicate win they get benefits like reduce rob defenses of village ,village funds.If syndicate loose then they dont exactly loose anything but the winning village gets immunity from robbing for a certain time period.All the benefits encourage syndicate to stay awake or partake in war to receive the bonus of event.

 

While i might have added some of things that might not be directly related to war and the problems we are facing,i have tried to include each element necessary to give my point of view on this discussion of war.Some might feel that adding a feature like council and "akatsuki" might be stretch just to reevaluate war but I have added a new feature in the discussion and i have not spoken entirely on all the abilities of council and syndicate's "akatsuki".I have only added the points relevant to war and there are lots of other areas where such a feature could be made use in game.If you have doubt and want me to elaborate on any points then feel free to ask .I understand that my method is certainly not the "correct" method and as such If you disagree with any of the points i say then i respect your criticisms and will reply to said criticism by evaluating it in accordance to its quality.I would also like to say that i have just started playing this game few days back so i am not entirely well verse with all the mechanics in place on this core so i might be entirely wrong on some points.So please don't kill me for that?maybe?

Also sorry for long post and any incorrect English usage.

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