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Cedzen

Town Hall: Missions

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For 1) i would increase the number and would lower cool down. That way people would see someone pop up on the attack page more often more opportunities for kills etc. We need to make the game entertaining for the current 100 ppl and keep the new ones while spoon feeding them prey.

 

Though a new issue would arise:

Exposing new people to PvP battles would need a measure to protect them. There was a ranting thread that suggested some means and ways to do that i can dig it up maybe.

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Azrael already brought up a decent idea for protecting newly ranked Chuunin that was accepted and moved to the Content Corner. Too many missions is a pain in the ass though since it gets utterly repetitive.

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Okaies, thanks Cedzen.

 

For point 3.
I don't really see how this might work... especially for a semi-dying game like this where most of the players have either been here very long, or has just recently started. The average might be skewed more towards the higher end and that of the an actual "average". I rather have it where there is only an x amount of time where you can get this bonus and then after that time period, you're back to being a normal player, otherwise people could just wait until the average is skewed higher just to get the bonus "stats" or whatever we're offering.

 

I like where Shika is going with the special 10th mission having variable gains. We're aiming to get activity up, so if you're committed, then you'll should be rewarded for that extra bonus. Otherwise if you're a casual player and just leeching, I don't see why they should EVER be able to catch up by doing minimum work. There needs to be some sort of balance around this. I don't like see freebies fly out without some sort of commitment. Otherwise you might as well just handicap the players that's been there since the start by slowing down their gains and increasing the newbs . _ .

 

@Szilu: Lowering the cooldown would just make it similar to option 3 from the start of this thread, but instead of making them spammable x number of times, you have a limited amount and once you get that special 10th mission, you can basically just log out of the game -- assuming you're not interested in over pooling and what not. I think that might decrease the activity rate instead of increase it.

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Fair point repetitive is definitely not good. This is the first step in the direction of bringing it to the masses. I'll retreat from the topic since it's clearly in the direction of option 1 + a bonus to help new ppl catch up to the oldies.

 

Still waking up incentives are always welcome and would be nice.

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Well, I guess I'm starting to lean towards Tallion's idea of performance based gains for the last mission then. That way someone can grind for better gains. Though there'd have to be some decent thought put into it to make sure that it can't be abused. You could have those performance based gains decrease until you reach a point where you're wasting a significant amount of CP/SP to gain more from the mission. This could possibly add some fun strategy to the game as it might allow you to give up stats that you could have gotten by using the CP/SP to train in exchange for greater HP. Right now, the players with sucky stats and high HP are either healers or already have high stats, but this trade off could give you the ability to compete against players with higher stats maybe...

 

Edit: I agree with Nexi, having additional gains to help newer players catch up should be time based if anything. Averages can get skewed so much, especially between player stay chuunin and ranking to jounin. Not to mention the huge gap between the majority of active EJ and the new EJ to the game...

 

Edit 2: @Namonaki - I think that either there's not a big enough gain between EJ and Jounin HP gains (as a jounin doing 8 a day will gain more than an EJ doing 7) or there's too great of a difference between chuunin and jounin. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. Ranking to jounin gives you the risk of getting killed by EJ, so you deserve better gains, ranking to EJ takes away your availability of getting kills, so you also deserve more HP gains so you can stop losing to jounin finally...

Edited by Shikayaru

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Any chance of increasing the mission gains between ranks? Seems like it takes way too long for players to overtake rank-holders under them.

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Give up stats that you could have gotten by using the CP/SP to train in exchange for greater HP. Right now, the players with sucky stats and high HP are either healers or already have high stats, but this trade off could give you the ability to compete against players with higher stats maybe...

 

I do like the sound of this. Make the last AI like a sacrifice thing where you can choose to get more HP only if you want to sacrifice a significant amount of pools to get that. At least... I believe that's what you're saying...? Correct me if I'm wrong. The problem is, will the sacrificing pools thing be similar to fighting an AI or like training a forbidden jutsu/summon or like jutsu mastery?

  • If it's like fighting an AI, then who's to say that the stronger people won't just spam their genin moves just to conserve pools so they can get the most of both words. I mean, if you do want to go through it this way, I suggest that you code the last mission as if it was an EM where it takes a certain amount of kills to kill, and one wrong move will kill you, but turn the HP bar, into your pool bar so that you can only come out with a fix maximum of pools left. Cons: Seems like too much coding work and I'm confused about the whole layout of it as I type this out haha.

     

  • If it's like training a forbidden jutsu/summon, then you can train it x amount of times you want, however your pool range will be decreased x amount each time and it clears your pools per usage. Cons: It's kinda spammable, so a limit would be good.

     

  • If it's like jutsu mastery, then it just takes x amount of pools to earn x amount of HPs, but it goes by levels. Say to earn an extra 100 HP would be to lose 1000 pools per CP/SP. To earn an extra 10k of HP, you'd need to sacrifice 500k pools, or whatever. Not really sure how this will work out, but seems to be the most sacrificial and plausible? Once again, a limit on how much HP you can earn a day should be implemented. I say no more than 10k cause that's a lot and if you're an EJ, that's 200 days / 6 months . _ . Cons: ??? I know it's there. I just can't wrap my head around it.

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Your last bullet is pretty much a variation of surgery, if we want this to boost activity, we'd need you out awake killing AI. Making the AI from these missions take percentage based damage sounds fair as to not give stronger players an unfair advantage. And yes, this could be spammable, we'd just need to make the lowest amount of gains less than the stats you'd gain by using those pools to train...

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Hmmm, I guess that sounds about fair.

I'm down with another percentage based damage AI.

(I just realized we derailed from the missions topic)

Back to the main topic, if this is the 10th mission of the day, instead of decreasing or increasing, why not just keep the same gains? All we really need is just to find a way to benefit these newcomers so they can catch up to the vets.

  • We're looking for activity - people are doing the 9 missions. Check.
  • People who do them are rewarded with the 10 mission - thus need to be awake to kill this 10th mission AI. Check. (Though, once you get used to the ragebar, you're still not generating enough "activity" to be caught in a PVP match - so I don't really know what "activity" truly means. Talking in tavern I don't think is an activity?)
  • Bonus stat gains - they get an extra mission worth of gains. Check.

To add to the newcomers vs long term player thing.

We need some sort of time restriction. What is classified as a newcomer and what is classified as a long term player? Average of HP as mentioned before? Loyalty Days? -- but that can be easily gone due to moving villages. The new login bonus? Above 150 days?

 

I'm not making anymore sense am I... I just re-read this and I don't understand a single thing I said . _ .

Edited by Nexilus

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Averages are probably much lower than you think. That said, the formula would lay things out pretty fairly with some constants, ratios and artificial caps and floors. The average is just a reference point for the formula, not any kind of multiplier in and of itself.

 

A time-based constraint doesn't help since weak players are still weak whether they're new or not. Best to change the terminology we're using I guess.

 

Shika's idea of sacrificing some stats for HP is decent - it's what I had in mind with the spammable missions in Option 3. With an attrition-indexed decay, eventually you'll reach a break-even point where the gens you're gaining are less than what you would get by training if you expend the same amount of pools. However, as missions are the only way to gain HP, there's still somewhat of a net positive, making it a viable method.

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Guest Faithy

What if there was a user preference where you could set a Focus for mission gains... some of you mentioned sacrificing pools for health... I have a different idea.

 

Let us say a generic mission's total rewards are 100% partitioned into 4 parts.

 

Health 25%

Generals 25% (+ exp)

Pool gain 25%

Ryo 25%

 

But then you have Ken who has capped his pools, doesn't need ryo and doesn't care about generals yet... He would focus on HP.

 

Ken's Focus

Health 100%

Generals 0% (+ exp)

Pool gain 0%

Ryo 0%

 

Or what about endgame Sarah? She had capped HP, generals and pools... she could still do Missions focused on Ryo gains.

 

Sarah's Focus

Health 0%

Generals 0% (+ exp)

Pool gain 0%

Ryo 100%

 

That is sort of the simplest version, further places this can go is deselecting unwanted rewards from the mission (through user preferences) which would in turn boost the other ones. 

 

This will probably not happen due to coding difficulty but what the hell...

 

 

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Take the 9 missions + one. combine it with Faithy's last post and call it a day! I would do missions all the time compared to the 2-3 I do now.

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Option 3 is terribly abusable. I guarantee some users would create macros and bots for it. Optimally, we do not want to facilitate cheating in any way.

 

As for the rest, I'm not particularly worried. Option 1 seems fairly decent, as it would require ~4 hours of straight activity; it does seem better than logging on every 3 hours for 5 mins, not to mention the fact 90% of TNR actually has real-life activities to engage which does not support that kind of grinding.

 

Faithy's post also seems pretty reasonable, I like the premise.

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I like Faithy's idea too, I'll keep it for integration with my Ryo update proposal. Looks like we're all more or less reaching a general consensus, I just need to work out the math and the practical details in some instances.

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I prefer the fourth option of leaving things the same. The "alarm-clock lifestyle" worked quite well for me!

  • Like 2

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When i suggested similar thing Pana responded:

 

 

 

The basic gist of this suggestions

"I want to run a marathon, but because I'm only available a few hours a day, we can all run only 1 mile per day"

 

So what have changed? Keep as it is.

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I'm not Pana and we're having a discussion so if you don't have anything to contribute to it, let's try not to drag it down.

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Yas it may have worked for you, dont know how... but that is way too unhealthy for a human to do all the time. You're hurting your physical well being for a cheap text based game. It needs to change.

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I also like Faithy's idea.

Some of us are nearing end-game and when you have capped everything, there is literally no reason to do missions. (or anything).

Also you can focus on 1 thing, if you want to be a pure hp tank or go offensive with pure generals, you could do that. It allows more diversity in stats'n strats. 

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Option 3 is terribly abusable. I guarantee some users would create macros and bots for it. Optimally, we do not want to facilitate cheating in any way.

 

If there are multiple missions that require more thought, then it'd make using macros and bots a lot more difficult. And if someone could still bot that way, then they're already using them to do their missions right now and have an unfair advantage. At least with a gains decay they'd be getting less reward...

 

So how would faithy's idea work? Would you choose before or after your mission which gains you want? Or would a function look at your HP and say, "He's got enough, let's give  him some ryo this time"? Because I don't really like that idea if that's how it would function...

 

Edit: Sorry about that Faithy, I guess I skipped over that every time I read it...

Edited by Shikayaru

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Guest Faithy

I mentioned...  in "User Preferences" you get to pick your focus... if you don't pick anything then you get the generic mission gains. 

 

There is a free spot in there if Terr removes the Get Signature thing which doesn't even work anymore xD

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I truly concur with Faithy's idea. Giving people the freedom of choosing the rewards helps create a stronger character. I can understand that the coding process will be an incredible ordeal but, in the long run, it will benefit everyone. 

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I like the idea also, of picking where you gains are focused.

 

Also to nexi/shika. The Stat copy basically makes the AI copy the stat of the user, you'll find something similar to it in the Arena style fight. So regardless of how strong the person is, the AI will ALWAYS match them in strength. Meaning a EJ will take just as long and have just as hard of a fight as a Genin would.

The bonus mission should have a cut off point yeah, like Shika said. That way after a certain point you're just spending more SP/CP to get HP. The issue with that mentioned what you guys said that people could just use lower level ranked jutsu?

A way around that is we can make the levels specifically weak to certain jutsu, or only damageable by certain jutsu. Like in some events how throwing a "Senbon" will give you the ability to deal damage, but throwing out your best EJ jutsu just gets blocked. Missions are already split by Rank, so making the last missions AI only damageable by that ranks jutsu should fix it, that way EJ can't spam Genin jutsu to conserve. 

 

Edit: "Always match them in strength" this can be changed to not be as strong as you to still promise a win, just really damage you.

Edited by Talion

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Yeah you can also leave the missions the way they are now. Nobody is making you do 8 missions a day, you do them because you want to. And there's something about picking what you want from your missions that doesn't feel right. And does liking faithy's suggestion mean that we're goin to start getting paid for doing missions?

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