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Kopravich

"Closed" in closed threads!

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Well...something needs to be fixed. Because verdandis family thread was invaded and a few people/mods deemed it ok, despite the disrespect. So....

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You ever consider that's because disrespect is not an IC reason not to do something?

 

For a missing ninja, being disrespectful is IC justification, to be perfectly frank. There isn't really a courteous way to say "I'm stealing your house now kthxbai"

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Not that I disagree with the concept, but let me get this straight, Zett. So if someone goes away for the weekend, I can crash their thread, ruin everything, and say it's legit.

 

Because it was 48 hours

 

@Raph: Missing-nin have counters to a fair few ANBU techniques. I've looked. Could you explain this amibiguous 'bias'? That they're open kill? All ANBU, medical nin, and Jounin and above are. That people don't like them? Anyone who does things that pisses people off get this. That they can be tracked? Anyone can be tracked. Missing-nin usually get better stealth than most on top of this. And free powers, by the way, that they really don't have to earn.

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This doesn't mean that you can just tick someone off and hide behind the 'closed' thread tag. If you feel as though they are hiding, PM them first to see if you can set up an RP. If they refuse, or you feel as though they are purposefully putting you off, PM an RP mod.'

 

only thing i have to say about this, what is the mod going to do ? force the person out into an open thread and let the other person kill them ? not likely.

 

 

Now, this whole thing is a tad bit silly, it can be fixed ICly a lot easier than it can OOCly, i have been a missing nin for 3/4 of my stay on tnf, and honestly if someone is so disturbed that there mansion was stolen or something like that, you should just stop. Because common sense would dictate that you laugh it off as a "Good one, i didn't see that coming" and continue on with your thread, making a new mansion. The only reason this is going on so far was because raph wanted it to, he knew you all would spark some big ass convo about this stuff that makes literally no sense.

 

Its the internet, things can be brand new in a matter of moments, all you have to do is re write it, nothing is real, you just wanted your mansion so you got it, you didn't work for it, you wanted it so you rped it being real. This whole debate about weather closed threads should be completely closed or not is stupid, your in a RP that is about ninjas, Ninjas kill people every single day and are always looking over there shoulders. You don't want that ? go to a different form, Ninjas just by there nature are made to destroy everything and anything, not cower and bitch and whine because they got there house stolen.

 

In short, man up seriously, there is no need for this discussion, if you honestly don't like it to such an extreme extent, just shrug it off and write a post saying "All of a sudden the mansion reappeared OH MY GOSH!, and continue on with your lives. All of this bickering about nonsense is what is degrading tnf, TNF is supposed to be going freeform, not putting rules on who can and cannot enter threads, because some people are to whiny. Seriously, just stop.

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@Yur:

 

Crimes cannot be closed. Missions can.

 

All crimes are open kill. Even E ranks.

 

ANBU have secret identities by default and missing ninja have to work for it.

 

Those three right off the bat. Add in now that you can basically tell a missing nin OOC who they can and cannot attack and it gets ridiculous. You can even attack an AS, provided you don't kill them. So why should a clan compound arbitrarily be immune?

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On the issue of respect... I wouldn't be opposed to the complete blacklisting of someone you don't want to RP with.

 

As in, similar to how you can say "Don't post in my apps anymore ever again," you say "I never want you to enter another one of my threads again and I'm never going to RP with you again. Don't speak with me ever. We're done."

 

It'd be extreme, but it'd solve the problem of "respect." *shrug*

 

Also. See my previous post, since it seems to have been somewhat ignored.

 

Not that I disagree with the concept, but let me get this straight, Zett. So if someone goes away for the weekend, I can crash their thread, ruin everything, and say it's legit.

 

Because it was 48 hours

 

It's better than nothing. Right now, they're free to do whatever they want, without giving the other party a chance to response. Compared to "I can destroy everything you've built up in a heartbeat and disappear by the time you the 30 second posting limit is up," a 48 hour wait for a response is fair.

 

I personally believe it should be a full-blown 3 days before the invaded party is obligated to offer their response. I was going for the middleman and saying 2 days. If everyone would prefer 72 hours, I'm perfectly fine with it, since I originally wanted it as such. *Shrugs.*

 

We could always do one of those fancy site polls/petitions. I heard they're all the rage with the cool kids.

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I'm not telling a missing-nin who they can and can't attack. Nor was I arguing that clan compounds should be immune to attacks. I was arguing against "missing-nin are constantly discriminated against by the system." I already ceded that missions are a bonus that normal nin get that missing-nin don't.

 

Any missing-nin can just put on a mask and give themselves another name, just as easily as an ANBU. There really isn't anything near the huge bias against them that people say there is. They get easier rank-up requirements, free jutsu, and follow, with the exception of crimes, the same high level rulings as everyone else.

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@Yur:

 

Crimes cannot be closed. Missions can.

 

All crimes are open kill. Even E ranks.

 

ANBU have secret identities by default and missing ninja have to work for it.

 

 

Not gonna lie, if crimes can't be closed I'm going to have to throw my opinion in that missions shouldn't be closed either.

 

crimes are crimes, bad things, the disclaimer when going missing nin kind of warns about a life of crime :/

 

secret identities? can't you just henge a secret identity? :/

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You ever consider that's because disrespect is not an IC reason not to do something?

 

For a missing ninja, being disrespectful is IC justification, to be perfectly frank. There isn't really a courteous way to say "I'm stealing your house now kthxbai"

 

Actually, no. To me it is never a reason, unless you have a rp'd vendetta. 'Because my missing wants to cause lots of destruction' is not a very compelling reason.

 

Theres a time and place for 'im stealing joor stuff, kthx'... a family thread is not one of them.

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I'm not telling a missing-nin who they can and can't attack. Nor was I arguing that clan compounds should be immune to attacks. I was arguing against "missing-nin are constantly discriminated against by the system." I already ceded that missions are a bonus that normal nin get that missing-nin don't.

 

Any missing-nin can just put on a mask and give themselves another name, just as easily as an ANBU. There really isn't anything near the huge bias against them that people say there is. They get easier rank-up requirements, free jutsu, and follow, with the exception of crimes, the same high level rulings as everyone else.

 

Whether you intended to support the point or not, it came across that way.

 

And other than not having to teach a class / sensei students, not substantially easier. Easily balanced out by the fact anyone who gives a crap can go "lolyoufail" and invade your crime with the most minimal justification. Crimes and missions are failure upon interference if it isn't a countermission/crime, so the act of entering causes the person to fail, which can directly make their rank up more difficult.

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Crimes are not supposed to be entered on at a whim. Without proper IC justification a crime can't just be stopped or tried to be stopped by an ANBU or someone. I think a MN has a good right to stop an ANBU with no IC justification from being in their crime thread.

 

Anyways, I have an ANBU and an MN and I don't go around hunting people just because I can. When you become these things you accept that you can die, but that's never a preferred outcome for anyone. I deliberately don't try to kill people unless it was agreed upon before hand, nor have I gone into other people's threads without permission/proper justification.

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My RPC has a desire to collect large pieces of real estate. The more valuable they are either financially or emotionally, the more he wants to collect them. Its the entire reason i made him was to steal things. Everything i possibly can.

 

So yes, it is IC justification. I don't need a deep seated hatred to randomly steal things. That's how murder works (sometimes) but not how theft works.

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Some people are missing stuff.

 

Had it been an open, or not stated open or closed, it would have been laughed off as 'you got me!' ...which is fine. Commendable, really. But sometimes people dont want their threads to be bothered.

 

So, the real issue becomes: When can someone ignore ooc statements to be in a thread? Whenever they want? With a lot of IC justification? Never?

 

Some people do want times where what happens to them is limited to certain people. Obvously, there is never a perfect solution and guide. Theoretically, people would be respectable enough to work it out, but this is not the case, as has been proven recently, and in different times and situations, it has been proven respect and ooc considerence is not enough.

 

Invading some threads are going to piss people off more than others. Taking a missing nin and stealing from the kages mansion is fair game - they have gaurds and the rp mods will defend it.

 

For a clan bulding area that is not mod run, people might be too tied up to deal with it. There is no rpable defense, even though there would be people there. Though, what im more concerened about, is it was for family plots and training. It is intended for family only, and the clan owner stated she wanted nothing to do with what he was doing. He decided to invade anyway, forcing verdandi to deal with him, in a thread where he shoukdnt have been in the first time.

 

I keep saying this, and yes, i realize that, but seriously. You dont want someone in your thread. Their reason for being there is flimsy at best, and has no vendetta or rpable plot. And even if he did, verdandi might have wanted it in another thread. It becomes 'i dont want you here' and 'well, im here anyways, deal with it.'

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It is a moderate annoyance to her at best. three sentences explaining she had to build a new house and return to business as usual. It's hardly cause for the third degree that its been given.

 

As I've said, It has been ruled I am within my right and I am not going to skip up one of the more valuable pieces in my collection because someone wants to use the idea of closing a thread to lay the guardian barrier around their house.

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The only reason it was done that way wasbecause the thread owner thought closed meant closed. Its not an open and shut case. Obviously, im fine with this now, but i do think she should get a chance to change things because under my understanding, you were the one to tell her to put it as closed if she didnt want it invaded.

 

But your same logic can be used to invade any thread. For any reason. Which i find very concerning. I can deal with orgs being forced open, as long as this is known by the thread starter. Not so much any thread for any reason.

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I honestly don't remember telling verdandi this and am not sure the precise context so i can't say with any certainty what my intentions were then.

 

I would much prefer if she adjusts it accordingly when I am gone. I could finish stealing it right now, she could RP rebuilding it and add the relevant clause to the beginning of the thread for future reference and from hereout it would be more or less unfindable. With the idea of Ex post facto in mind, it honestly wouldn't be fair to just change it after the fact to block me, wouldn't you agree?

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Well, no one but a handful of people, as is proven by this thread, knew you could do that. If we were properly told, then she would have done things differently, im sure. I would hope that the two of you could work something out.

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Well, that's how ex post facto works. Live and learn would be an alternative line of thinking. Yes, she could have done that, but she did not. It would be like letting your opponent editing their post because it had left them open to a hard counter that would end them in a battle.

 

I have no objection to Dao Residence 2.0 having that clause, but this one did not have it and is fair game for me to steal.

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I find that kinda meh because the premise of the invasion of this thread was on a little known rule, but in the end it is up to verdandi.

 

Now. Back to the original point.

 

Private threads outside of an org/base are off limits. if stated as closed.

Org/bases/ clan buildogs are auto open. If you can get ic justificion to be there then you can be there.

 

Y/N?

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I'm fine with that.

 

And let's not worry about the Dao Residence in particular for the time being. I have realized i have the ability to get IC justification if it is actually such a big issue.

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Thread closed for now.

 

If another GM or Admin would like to re-open it, by all means, go ahead, but this is definitely going to a place I'd rather it not go.

 

Thank you, kindly. C:

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