View Full Version : Items used in Battle
I was thinking, instead of items such as: Shuriken, Needles, and Exploding Tag inflict static damage on an opponent, I think the damage should be percentage based.
Examples would be.
Shuriken- 2% damage.
Needle- 5% damage.
Exploding Tag- 10% damage.
Percentage could be changed, as well as the prices of these items.
My reasoning for this?
1) These items are useless in battle at the moment. I recall Aet saying Exploding Tags do a hefty amount of damage before Core 2 was released. However, it would barely do damage against a Genin . They're just things that look cool and is probably clogging up your database, neh?
2) I think it will make battles a bit more interesting with these items effects. Instead of using jutsus all the time, people would actually begin to purchase them and use them.
3) They will somewhat help in the balancing of the game. People with high HP.
I think it should be given a shot.
It can already be percent based -___- just because something doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't exist.
it's not percent based because they are cheap items... as usual your knack of completely ripping things out of context comes back to haunt me.
I never said it couldn't exist. >_>.
But I would like to see it exist.
The only reason I rip things put of context is because my suggestions have to go through you. >_>.
So... can we raise the prices of these items, and make their damage percentage based?
No -___- TD can make new percentage based items if he wants, but there's no reason to make the current ones percentage based.
your suggestion is only there to let you take down people with higher HP easier, since percentage based damage is rare, we have no reason whatsoever to give you something as powerful as percentage based damage.
The current ones are useless.
You want to know the reason? HP is an imbalance.
Health Points, the amount of hits we can take, our durability, an imbalance. . .
Right, well, you'll have to fill me in on that once you've thought this over:
HP is gained from
-Ranking up (Large change)
-Missions (Small - Medium change)
-Battle Arena (Small change)
Damage is rarely based on percentages currently, and what you're suggesting is to implement weapons stronger than most Jutsu...unless you'll go on to say we should just go ahead and change everything to percentage based, flipping it where set damages are rare. However you must consider that HP is a dominating factor, because it's so much harder to come by than others. So to remove it with percentage based attacks would be to, basically, remove HP totally. Now I haven't yet heard your argument for why it is an imbalance, however the more I think about it the less it seems right...and it didn't seem right before.
What you're proposing is to give more power to level holders. You'll have successfully dulled down the battle system and rank up benefits..neither of which seem desirable. A large factor against level holding, or withholding rank ups, is that you don't get the bonus HP...which is significant, since what may one-hit someone level holding at Chuunin, could take 4 or 5 shots if they claimed ranks and gained that HP.
The only other two ways to gain HP is through missions and Battle Arena...and since Battle Arena gives .1 HP per battle, which is +.4 HP per minute if you had a loading time of 0, never missed a second, and could select all actions and go through all the screens in literally 0 seconds, which in an hour at that rate is only +24 HP, I'd say that's not a persuasive argument. As for missions, the benefits equal your current strength as well as take a set amount of your C&S, and thus benefit you in proportion to how strong you are then.
If you can find a logical argument that the cost of missions and the health benefits from them create an imbalance in the system, I'll listen. But since you failed to back your statement with any support, I have nothing to go on besides the blatant statement that HP is an imbalance.
The current weapons aren't useless, they're just not the strongest. If you weigh a good 100,000 ryo on a Jutsu that takes 3 hours to train each time and you've done five or six times, compared to a couple thousand ryo tool that anyone can purchase at their local Ninja-Mart, I really don't think they should be at equal strength.
At the same time, however, that tool can be used to do less for less. Since less is sometimes all you need, it fits its requirements. Weapons in general aren't meant to be your tool of mass destruction, so I can't understand why you push for them to be.
The current ones are useless.
You want to know the reason? HP is an imbalance.
-___- my kingdom for a "hitchhikers guide to balance" to hit people with.
I dunno Aet, why but you fail to notice that missions give insane bonus with the hp and stats compared to normal training and raiding. People started to play this game to do missions instead of actually killing other players.
I'm repeating myself again for nothing i bet but for 45 chakra and stamina you gain 0,3 to all stats (that's 1,2 stat total). 3 hit points. While for same amount of chakra and stamina you can get 0.5 to one stat. Lets say that the stat gain is fair. Since you sacrifice some of your regen time, ryo for ramen, etc. However people can easily double triple or quadruple their hp in quite short time.
Now if we are given 2 people with exactly same stats. However person B has 4 times more hp cause he obtained his stats through missions. Person B can beat person A 3 times before person A kills him. Now tell me how is that balanced ?
That doesn't mean that making items HP based so you can kill anyone with X of them is a suitable solution -___-
getmoney216
07-05-2008, 08:09
person a should start doing missions. u act like person b got 4 times the health overnight. no they had to work at it. ur basicly saying somehow person b is cheating
That doesn't mean that making items HP based so you can kill anyone with X of them is a suitable solution -___-
I am not supporting this idea. Sorry Desu but i also find this stupid :p
I'm just pointing out the fact that current situation is imbalanced. Heavily.
person a should start doing missions. u act like person b got 4 times the health overnight. no they had to work at it. ur basicly saying somehow person b is cheating
Do you even have any braincells and know how to read ? Where did I said anyone did anything overnight ? I act like the game is turning into mission whoring instead of playing. So the work you mention is actually turning the game into boredom.
Well if I changed the damage calculations massive whining would occur.
if I took away the HP gain, massive whining would occur, and it wouldn't dissolve the current situation.
I'm not psychic, or omniscient -____-
I figured as much.
Make a hp limit ? lets say 200k ? People will whore missions non the less. But in 6 months or longer time some will hit the cap.
getmoney216
07-05-2008, 08:16
well part of the game is having high hp. so missions are the best way to get hp higher that is why people do it. there already is a cap on hp. like everything else
getmoney216
07-05-2008, 08:19
and ull do what. shut yo mouth
it'll be capped somewhere along the way, but that wont negate the immediate whining.
Some more percentage based attacks will eventually show up ~___~ Desu just wants too much, too fast, too easily.
Well, maybe. But atm there is more than him unhappy about the situation. Not everyone has the time or wants to spam missions to be even with the ones that do.
Btw Desu. Try out Shadow Precision.
I have better things to do than to listen to the users whine.
they always expect me to jump up and fix it immediately -___- they want everything yesterday, if not two months ago.
I don't care how many people are unhappy with any given situation, the whining will never end no matter what I do, so I may just as well do things in my own time. Since the whining wont go away anyway.
the time of 5 minute fixes is over -___- any and all fixes will come in the next major release, no sooner. Or I'll just be stuck doing work twice.
It's okay. All we would like to hear is that you are aware of this and maybe are thinking about doing something with this. Notice that you rarely tell us that if it is about game balancing :P
I'm not a game designer -____- therefore I will think about features as little as possible I'm tired of doing stuff I'm not qualified for only to get yelled at afterwards.
Yet you seem to be the only person who replies on these forums :s
*Whines at TD and Terr*
TD isn't a game designer either -__- he makes the content, nothing else.
tdragon86
07-05-2008, 13:36
Oh..I'm here...>___> I read, doesn't mean I have to reply.
But every time I see someone whining because we need this or that, it's a way to make sure they won't get this or that anytime soon...
Not to mention what you are asking is an easy way to kill people, regardless of HP, percentage based items will affect everyone and are, in my view, more imbalanced than high HP.
I'll make new stuff when I feel it's time, as of now I consider the content to fill more than the basic needs, therefore it is not an immediate priority, except for A-crimes, which will be up pretty soon.
Right now, I'm focusing on the other part of my job.
Health Points, the amount of hits we can take, our durability, an imbalance. . .
Right, well, you'll have to fill me in on that once you've thought this over:
HP is gained from
-Ranking up (Large change)
-Missions (Small - Medium change)
-Battle Arena (Small change)
Damage is rarely based on percentages currently, and what you're suggesting is to implement weapons stronger than most Jutsu...unless you'll go on to say we should just go ahead and change everything to percentage based, flipping it where set damages are rare. However you must consider that HP is a dominating factor, because it's so much harder to come by than others. So to remove it with percentage based attacks would be to, basically, remove HP totally. Now I haven't yet heard your argument for why it is an imbalance, however the more I think about it the less it seems right...and it didn't seem right before.
First, I'd like you to take note: Weapons and items are two different things.
Second, how would implementing HP based attacks remove HP totally? The percentages I posted were just a guess of how much HP would be taken away. 5% damage against a person, even against a genin wouldn't do much damage. However, these items are stackable, and will constantly have to be replenished. My statement was, that they are useless at the moment.
Third, I don't need to give my reasoning as to why it is an imbalance. It's common sense. >_>
What you're proposing is to give more power to level holders. You'll have successfully dulled down the battle system and rank up benefits..neither of which seem desirable. A large factor against level holding, or withholding rank ups, is that you don't get the bonus HP...which is significant, since what may one-hit someone level holding at Chuunin, could take 4 or 5 shots if they claimed ranks and gained that HP.
Meh, power to level holders? HP is giving power to level holders. Fro what I've seen, their caps are the same as ours. I know chuunin who can beat SJs. Chuunin with over 15k hp, and can one hit you in the game. An item that takes away 5 percent damage would require 20 attacks either way. How big of a deal is that?
If you can find a logical argument that the cost of missions and the health benefits from them create an imbalance in the system, I'll listen. But since you failed to back your statement with any support, I have nothing to go on besides the blatant statement that HP is an imbalance.
Lol, once again common sense. Stop acting as if your important.
The current weapons aren't useless, they're just not the strongest. If you weigh a good 100,000 ryo on a Jutsu that takes 3 hours to train each time and you've done five or six times, compared to a couple thousand ryo tool that anyone can purchase at their local Ninja-Mart, I really don't think they should be at equal strength.
At the same time, however, that tool can be used to do less for less. Since less is sometimes all you need, it fits its requirements. Weapons in general aren't meant to be your tool of mass destruction, so I can't understand why you push for them to be.
Once again, items and weapons = two different things.
Oh..I'm here...>___> I read, doesn't mean I have to reply.
But every time I see someone whining because we need this or that, it's a way to make sure they won't get this or that anytime soon...
Not to mention what you are asking is an easy way to kill people, regardless of HP, percentage based items will affect everyone and are, in my view, more imbalanced than high HP.
Everything is whining to you people. A suggestion isn't necessarily a complaint.
And as I said before, percentage doesn't necessarily have to be high. 5% the highest seems reasonable.
All I did was post a suggestion.
rycio, it's taijutsu >_>
Second, how would implementing HP based attacks remove HP totally? The percentages I posted were just a guess of how much HP would be taken away. 5% damage against a person, even against a genin wouldn't do much damage. However, these items are stackable, and will constantly have to be replenished. My statement was, that they are useless at the moment.
because the actual percentages don't matter, it always takes exactly 100 / Percentage strikes to kill someone, which is why using it everywhere would be pure crap.
They might be useless to you but I remember a crapload of genin that made good use of them fighting their way to the old cabin.
Third, I don't need to give my reasoning as to why it is an imbalance. It's common sense. >_>
Then I never need to give my reasoning why something isn't going to happen either, it's all common sense...
Lol, once again common sense. Stop acting as if your important.
Excuse the rare display of an ego, but *cough* I AM important.
HuckleberryPie
07-05-2008, 19:47
They might be useless to you but I remember a crapload of genin that made good use of them fighting their way to the old cabin.
Aet has a point there, Desu. Genins will have to struggle to the old cabin if those items are %based. Maybe they can be made to do static damage to AIs while do % damage to players, but it's all up to them.
Excuse the rare display of an ego, but *cough* I AM important.
Excuse me for pointing this out, but Desu was saying that to Serento, not you. Of course everyone knows that you are important.
~___~ well sherlock, he might have been addressing Serento, but he was using that line to address an opinion and conclusion that coincides with my own.
hence, my statement becomes valid.
Oh..I'm here...>___> I read, doesn't mean I have to reply.
But every time I see someone whining because we need this or that, it's a way to make sure they won't get this or that anytime soon...
Not to mention what you are asking is an easy way to kill people, regardless of HP, percentage based items will affect everyone and are, in my view, more imbalanced than high HP.
I'll make new stuff when I feel it's time, as of now I consider the content to fill more than the basic needs, therefore it is not an immediate priority, except for A-crimes, which will be up pretty soon.
Right now, I'm focusing on the other part of my job.
You seem to be designing a different game that I am playing. For me an easy way to kill someone is to oneshot or twoshot him. Given that, an item that deals dmg equal to 10% of your total or current health is laughable. Deffinately not an easy way to defeat somebody.
This item would be a solution to kill people like cloud who is unbeatable atm. Even if half the server tries to harm him.
It's nice that you will do things when you feel like it's the time. It's your own choice how you design the game. Yet the game are the players. When you chose to imbalance it and ignore the whining you may end up without work cause there won't be players to play your game anymore. I've seen more than one browser game die like that.
Ps.: Desu I will pm you in game with some details.
Ps2.: Muchos love for deleting the inactive accounts.
Quit trying to make the players all high and mighty -__-
I tried to reduce the amount of 1HKO and 2HKO fights between people of the same strength, I obviously failed but that's why neither TD or myself are game designers, we do the best we can.
We don't give a crap about the users, if the users leave, we'll simply go along with our lives.
End up without work? we don't get paid who are we to care?
If you don't get paid I am scared to elaborate where all the money go :o
*starts to point his whiny finger at a certain person*
I'm not trying to make players high and mighty. I'm trying to point out that we are as important as you are. Even if you refuse to acknowledge that.
~____~
maybe to whomever cares about the game's continuing existence. But not to me personally.
you can't expect us to do crap we're not suited for, you can't expect us to listen to the users either, since they're selfish idiots that think things through even less than we do.
What I refuse to acknowledge is that all you people that are yelling and whining should be listened to. I have no reason to put up with it -___- and since none of you come up with solutions that actually work, I have no reason to do anything.
you're doing nothing but pissing me off... and we all know what that leads you.
You having to find a new code monkey that'll work for free -___-
We won't care. We actually don't care much atm. As you pointed out we're just selfish brats aren't we ? Besides if you don't care about our opinion why should we care about yours ?
And I do not understand one thing. You seem to be the only person doing most of the job. Including the forum feedback that is annoying you most. Why is there none to help you out... I guess Garzett was doing some of this but he seems to be MIA.
~__~ I'm not asking you to care about me leaving, but you are going to have to find a new code monkey, if you dont' care about that, then why would you care about the damage output?
I'm doing the job only because nobody else does.
Why isn't anyone else doing it? How the hell would I know?
Me + people == critical error.
I don't understand them, they don't understand me. End of story.
That question was just as stupid as all those morons asking when I'm going to get this and that done -___- or when the server admins get off their lazy butts to fix things.
Maybe I will just leave, obviously I can't do things right anyway. And the users can't do anything but whine.
And it hasn't been that successful in alleviating boredom anyway.
I do care about the dmg output cause I want to play something playable Aet. I do not care about who codes anything cause I am selfish. As is the rest of the server. Truth is, you are currently irreplaceable. I know that, many people do not.
Why I do not care? If the game dies I will just find another, or go on with my life just as you will. I don't live this game.
I'll form the previous question differently then. Why won't you try to find someone to help you out? You and Terr are the game funders. I was sure that means you got something to say.
I'm kind of surprised you don't get any money from this. The server and bandwidth cannot be that expensive compared to evaluated income. (I judge by the reputation points on players and the surveys). I have no idea how does your agreement with Terr look like and such. I guess that's something I should not poke my nose into.
I can understand that you want to leave. Even if you created the game it probably does not give the same fun as it used to give. That's how my last favorite game died. There was none left to code any changes.
Truth is that if you give people something they will still bite your hand and demand more. That pisses off. That's why I would never even read forums if I were you and wold use moderator monkeys to do that for me :p
Anyways. I hope you sort things somehow. If you chose to leave in the future I wish you all the best.
Rycio.. Aet has chosen not to get paid..
And at least one year ago, it was in the news that Terr 'had' to live on only eating canned food.
He isn't getting rich on this game, regardless if people think so.
I was not playing this game a year ago.
I had and have no idea what kind of personal situation Terr has.
The money income is not that large. And I never judged it as large. It is not something you could live for. But if this was additional income to your daily work it probably would be something worth the effort aet is putting into it.
And you wouldn't have had to be here for more than a couple of days to know that all Aet wants/needs, is a place where he can be alone.
And enough milk
I do care about the dmg output cause I want to play something playable Aet.
It's just as playable as core 1 was -___- more so even, and yet people whine more than they did in core 1, and whined they wanted core 1 back. Behold the stupidity of the masses.
I'll form the previous question differently then. Why won't you try to find someone to help you out?
Did you even read my previous post?
me + people == critical error.
Where in the name of nine hells would I find anyone to help me out? 99.99999% of the human populace around the world pisses me off.
I'm kind of surprised you don't get any money from this. The server and bandwidth cannot be that expensive compared to evaluated income.
Money == taxes, taxes == administrative overhead.
On top of that, money means nothing to me, it's useless.
I can understand that you want to leave. Even if you created the game it probably does not give the same fun as it used to give.
it was never any "fun" to begin with -____- the only time I had "fun" in the past 11 years was when I ran around poking holes in the security of Iruka's site. Which was very recently, but meh.
Anyways. I hope you sort things somehow. If you chose to leave in the future I wish you all the best.
it's not up to me to sort things out, it's up to the users -__- I don't care either way. Either I sit here, get yelled at, and do stuff. Or I sit here, don't get yelled at, and decompose slowly due to boredom.
All the same to me.
Grimmjow jaggerjack
08-05-2008, 23:08
i dont see how Hp is ununbalanced??? all can do missions and get HP what is ununbalanced about that
of topic the greatest thing about reading Suggestions is he read Aeterno commed on what people Suggest's
Ok....Stfu and move on you pathetically idiotic fools. -_-;; Your basically trying to turn this into core1 where everything was % based basically, where hp diden't matter and if you did 10x the enemy's deffences they were dead no matter the HP. Your whining is annoying and it's apparent he works hard on the game. He coded core2 on his own free time, he's not getting paid, and this is only a game.
Unless you have been playing the game for atleast a year or two you shouldn't make comments about things you don't understand. Half of you wouldn't even remember things like the first event ever in tnr or back when Aet first joined staff. Why bring it up? Well, this only proves/shows that you haven't been playing long enough to know anything. You know nothing about how things go in the game and your basically nub's. I really don't even know why you all waste your time posting topics like this, or why you (the staff) bother replying to these topics after you say yes or no, things are thought through and sent through a process before they are added to the game.
If they went and made such basic thing hp based it would be basically over powered and stupid. If my wep deff is 100,000 and your wep off is 10 and you use an exploding tag on me, it shouldn't blast away 10% of my max hp. End of story stop whining and being so childish. Don't like it? Move on and find another game, or better yet find a life.
Nightfall
09-05-2008, 03:07
One of the many reason why TNR is not good anymore after the edit. I would aslo like to see more damage with weapons, or new weapons that have more power.
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.